412. “Helping Others Helps You” | Beating Depression and Rewiring Your Mind for Joy with Todd Patkin

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Todd Patkin:
So it's really a question of do you want to look at what you have or do you want to look at what you don't have? Many people will look at the person next door and be jealous of the car, but they don't realize how sad the people next door are because they can't have children. Meanwhile, you have three wonderful children, but you're focused on the car next door.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Hello and welcome to The Daily Helping with Dr. Richard Shuster. Food for the brain, knowledge from the experts, tools to win at life. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, and whatever you do, this is the show that is going to help you become the best version of yourself. Each episode, you will hear from some of the most amazing, talented, and successful people on the planet who followed their passions and strived to help others. Join our movement to get a million people each day to commit acts of kindness for others. Together, we're going to make the world a better place. Are you ready? Because it's time for your Daily Helping.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Daily Helping Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. And I am so excited to share our guest with you today. His name is Todd Patkin, a Massachusetts native, graduated from Tufts University. After he did that, he joined the family business and spent the next 18 years growing it to new heights. But then it was purchased by Advance Auto Parts and he was free to focus on his main passions–philanthropy and giving back to the community. 

He wrote a book called Finding Happiness: One Man's Quest to Beat Depression and Anxiety and--Finally--Let the Sunshine In. He has been, for more than a decade, in pretty much any media that you can possibly imagine. He's gonna share his wisdom with us today. Todd, welcome to The Daily Helping. It is awesome to have you with us today.

Todd Patkin:
Dr. Richard, I can't wait to speak to all of the clients out there.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Yeah, this is going to be a great show, Todd. I love the fact, and I teased it a little bit, right, like you were in a family business and that business was purchased. So, what I often ask people is to jump in their own kind of personal time machine and go back to that seminal moment that put them on the path we're doing today. For you, I'm going to do it a little differently because we've kind of talked about it, right? Like your company was bought and, now, you had an opportunity to go after these passions–philanthropy, giving back, helping people be happy. But what was it intrinsically that helped you identify those are the things that light you up inside and fill you with fire?

Todd Patkin:
Well, going all the way back when I was younger, I used to like to help people. If there was someone who was new to the school, and they weren't really fitting in, I'd sit with them at lunchtime. So, it was always my passion to help people. And throughout my life, I've struggled with a lot of anxiety and depression. I had two breakdowns. Each time, I was suicidal. So, I understand how difficult things can be. 

I wrote my initial book to share with people that we all do dumb stuff. We all make mistakes. When I was younger, I was invited to a great prom by a beautiful girl in the next town, Dr. Richard, and I actually wore work boots, and she was horrified when she first saw me. And then, I actually pulled the chair out and she sat on the floor. So, we all do dumb stuff. And that's why I wrote my book. I want people to understand that, again, we're all in the same boat and we all make mistakes, and we need to move on. So, that's really why I wrote the book was to help people. That's what makes me the happiest. 

So, I knew it really from a very, very young age. When I sold the company, I was concerned about having too much free time. The first thing I did was run the Boston Marathon to stay busy. And then, I started writing my books. This book on happiness, and then the book that really I'm quite well known for is my 12-Week Program to Happiness. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
So, let's talk about that a little bit because I know that you've got a psychologist that you're working with, a pretty well-known one as well, and Dr. Rankin, who helped you write the book. So, it's always nice when you have this blend of personal experience buttressed by clinical and valid content, kind of, in the background. So, take us through, it's 12 steps, right? It's a 12-week program. Let's go through what these are. Let's kind of start at the beginning and guide somebody through that journey, what they'd be getting with this.

Todd Patkin:
Well, the first week is exercise. And I know that turns off a lot of people, Dr. Richard, but you have to understand, the quickest way to go from unhappy to happy is exercise. It lets off the serotonin in your brain and you feel like a million bucks. And that way we hope that it will push us through the rest of the weeks. The rest of the weeks are very difficult because we're trying to change your mindset from negative to positive. And this is a mindset, "I'm 60 years old, so I might have it for 60 years, and I need to change it."

The most important thing with exercise is to take it slow and easy. Too many people jump in the gym, and take 30 pounds, and start struggling with it. And the next day, they can't move and they give up on exercise. So, work and take it slow. 

Week two, and again it's something that people may not love to do but it's listening to and reading motivational books and tapes. And that's because as it is with exercise, we want to pull us through the next 10 weeks at that point. And feeling positive and feeling excited by reading this motivation, you're gonna have a much better chance of being successful with the next 10 weeks. 

Week three is the most important week of all. It's being easier on ourselves. Most of us do a hundred things right in a day, and one thing wrong, and we focus on that one thing wrong. We go home at night, we're upset with ourselves, we beat ourselves up. And the next day, the same thing happens. We do a hundred things right, perhaps we do one thing wrong, and we beat ourselves up. So, it's a never-ending path to always being frustrated with ourselves. 

And what I try to do is help people get out of that rut. We start out asking people just to notice when they're being mean to themselves. For example, we know when you have a smoker, and they're trying to quit smoking, the first thing they're encouraged to do is just notice when that cigarette comes to their lips. They're not encouraging them yet to stop smoking but just notice it. And that's what I want you to do is notice when you're being mean to yourself. 

And then, the following week, we work on actually changing that negative to a positive.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
So, we've talked a lot and we're getting into these early steps, and I'm loving what you're saying, and absolutely getting people to exercise. Exercise releases hormones, it changes your brain chemistry, there's so many benefits from exercise. I do want to spend a little bit more time on the third week because going easy on yourself, that's so interesting because to your point, we are by far our most damning critics. And, really, society in general is set up to feed us the negative, right? It focuses on the negative. 

If you were to watch a news broadcast – and they've done studies on this – the newscasts overwhelmingly are negative in nature, stories that produce fear and anxiety, anger, things like that. So, if there's a positive story, it's all the way kind of buried in the back of the newspaper or the last thing on the news, right? 

And that's the same thing with people's digital media, their social media. So, everything in our world view, for many of us, is negative-facing and we are hardest on ourselves. So, I'd like to explore this piece a little bit more. What are the steps and some of the practices that you advise people do as to how they cannot beat themselves up and identify those things that they should be proud of.

Todd Patkin:
Well, Dr. Richard, first I want to explain to people why I think we're so hard on ourselves. It's kind of my theory of the American dream. For example, my grandfather came over in 1910, and he created a new business, and he only looked at the things he did wrong, not what he did right, so that he could be more successful. And then, he did it so that his kids and their grandkids would be happier. 

The problem is he taught my dad just to look at the things that he did wrong as well as what he did, and my dad taught me just look at the things wrong so that you'll improve. But if we're just looking at the things that we do wrong, we're all very unhappy. So, I feel that it kind of comes from previous generations. 

In terms of changing the way that we think, one of the things we encourage people to do is focus on it and really make it a priority. If you just say to yourselves at the beginning of the month, "I'm going to try to be more happy and less critical of myself," you'll never succeed. You need to make it your number one priority that day because it's so difficult. So, we encourage men to put a note next to their shaving kit, women to put a note next to their makeup kit, "Today, my number one priority is to look at the good as opposed to the bad." That's to focus on it as much as you possibly can.

And then, we encourage people, again, when they notice that they're being mean to themselves to actually write it down, and to write all the things that they did right in the day. And they'll see that they did a hundred things right. They brushed their hair right. They brushed their teeth right. They got to work on time right. So many good things that they did. People are so difficult on themselves that we try to do that. A lot of times, you'll have someone who might be fearful of public speaking, and they do the greatest speech in the world. But they just make one mistake at the end, and they beat themselves up terribly. So, we try to work with them to actually start looking at the positive as opposed to the negative.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
It's so true, right? And we stub our toe, and then we're focused on the pain of that, but we might have done 15 million things on that same day that are positive, that are uplifting, that move our lives in the direction we want to. So, we've talked about these first three weeks. I want to jump into what happens next. So, let's talk about week four. 

Todd Patkin:
Week four is the fact that we spend a lot more of our time not in the present but in the past and the future. And that's very harmful. You may be with your kids on the swing set and swinging them, but you're not thinking about being with them and really enjoying it. When we talk about living in the past, there's so many things that we can regret. 

It's amazing how many people I speak to say their biggest regret is not going to college, but they're 50 years old, and they're still hanging on to that. Or perhaps you have a relative that you feel has always done you wrong. And the first thing you do is you wake up in the morning, and the first thing you think about is that relative, and you put yourself in a bad mood.

Fear of the future, many people are afraid they're going to get cancer. Many young people are afraid, if they get A's all the time, they're not going to get A's. So, we asked you to make a list of really what would happen if you got cancer. And first, we asked you to ask yourself, how likely is it that you'd get cancer? And if you're under the age of 50, the likelihood is very, very small. Then, we like you to ask yourself, would you absolutely die right off the bat if you had cancer? And the truth is 95% of cancer today is curable. So, it would be a pain in the butt, so to speak, perhaps doing chemo, but you'd be fine. 

The next thing is let's look at that student that's so upset they're always gotten A's, and they're fearful they're going to get a B or a C. What's the likelihood that they're not going to get A's? Well, if their entire life they've gotten A's, most likely they'll get A's. And then, if they did get a B, it's not gonna absolutely ruin their world. So, that's what we try to do with fear of the future. We really want you to spend more time enjoying the present.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
This is my favorite chapter so far, actually, or my favorite week, because this is so rooted in some of the tenets of cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Because the concept you're talking about here is catastrophizing. And so, what you're really asking people to do is to objectively, by pulling out their emotions, say, what's the worst thing that could happen, truthfully? What's the evidence that I have that suggests that I'm gonna get cancer? I'm gonna get a B, if they're that student, right? So this is terrific stuff. So, let's keep rolling. What comes next?

Todd Patkin:
It's called playing to your strengths. It's so important in life that we're doing the things that we enjoy the most and that we're best at. So, we encourage people to make two lists. Write down the five things that you enjoy doing the most in life, and then write down the five things that you think you're better at than most people. And most likely, you'll have one or two things that will be on both lists and we ask you to underline those. Those are the things that you should be spending most of your time on. 

For example, I asked myself about a month ago, what do I really enjoy doing? What did I enjoy doing as a kid? And what do I think I was best at? And it was street hockey. So, I joined an adult street hockey league. So, initially, you'll probably be doing this with hobbies. You can't quickly switch your job to something that you feel you're best at and that you enjoy doing the most but you certainly can do it with hobbies.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
And then, week six, what do we get there?

Todd Patkin:
Well, it's very very important that you spend more time with positive people. And I say if you're not willing to work on week six, then you should almost throw out the book and not work on the first 12 because if you're constantly around people that are negative, you're going to be negative. There's something called crabs in a bucket. And we talked about if one crab is trying to get out of the bucket, all the other crabs pull them down. 

So, I recommend you make a list of the people you spend the most time with, maybe it's three people you spend 90% of your time with, maybe it's five. Rank those people in a scale of one to five. One being they're totally negative. They're just awful when you're around them. They make you feel terrible. Five being the people who build you up. Whenever you're with them, you just feel like a million bucks. 

And then, I want you to add those up, each of the numbers, and then divide by that number. So, in other words, if you have five people that you spend most of the time with, and you put a number next to them, I want you to add up those numbers, and divide by five. Now, you get your number for overall happiness scale with the people you spend the most time with. If it's a one or two, you absolutely need to start making some changes. If it's a four or five, you're in a roll. 

Now, when we talk about making changes, people get very nervous because they think we're saying no longer hang out with your brother, no longer be around your parents, get rid of your best friends. What we encourage you to do if they're a one or two is to sit down with them, let them know that you're working on a new 12-week program to happiness, and we really need them to be more positive because they're bringing you down. Would they be willing to take the program? If they're not willing to take the program and they're really negative, we encourage you to spend less time with them.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Yeah, obviously, you can't get rid of your immediate family but you can spend more time with people that do support your hopes and dreams, and you can limit the impact of those people. And I think I'd love to hear your thoughts on this based on your experience. I think it is okay to set those healthy boundaries with people that are draining you and are not supportive of your dreams. 

Todd Patkin:
I think you have to. As I said, if you're not willing to spend less time with the people who are pulling you down, then I wouldn't even go through the other 11 exercises, right? That's how important this is.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Okay. Now this is a really huge one. So what is the next step that comes after this?

Todd Patkin:
The next step is spending a lot of your time with the closest people that you have, the people that you love the most. And actually, if you look at studies, this is the number one thing to happiness, is having really good friends and really good relationships with your family and spending more time with those people you love. 

I can tell you my wife is from Venezuela, and Venezuela is ranked one of the happiest countries in the world. All of the happiest countries in the world, you'll see that they have tremendous family relationships. In fact, people ask me why I think so many Americans are unhappy today. I think a lot of it is the breakdown of the family. So, we encourage people to spend more time. 

I have two friends that I loved in high school, one's in New York and one's in Florida, but I'm making an effort to go to New York or go to Florida at least once a year to keep those relationships up.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Makes sense. Makes total sense. And yeah, it is interesting how we, as a country, have been kind of sliding down that global happiness index for years. And I do think it's because not only are we spending less time with family,  and I'm not going to turn this political, but we have become so divided that you have families that are now saying, "Well, if you believe in one political party, then I'm not talking to you." And we see that on both sides of the aisle. So, it's highly problematic because if we can't talk to our friends and families, who can we talk to?

Todd Patkin:
Yeah, I was with my dad the other day, and he's 89, and he actually has cancer, and I wanted to understand more of the family. And he was telling me when he was growing up just how close he was with his cousins. They would go to a certain house on the beach all summer long with his cousins. I hardly even know my cousins. So, there's really been a breakdown in the family. 

Next up is developing an attitude of gratitude. At any time, we can look to the left, figuratively speaking, and see all of the people who have more than us. And figuratively speaking, we can look to the right and see all of the people who have less than us. Doesn't it make sense to look to the right and see people who have less than us? Wouldn't that make you happier? We have so much more. If you look at, going back to the beginning of time, even people in our age that don't have a lot of money are the top 1%, not even the top 1% in terms of wealth, but they're in the top 10th of a 1%. 

We have running water in our houses, we have electricity, we have so many things that people didn't have in the past. So, it's really a question of do you want to look at what you have? Or do you want to look at what you don't have? Many people will look at the person next door and be jealous of the car. But they don't realize how sad the people next door are because they can't have children. Meanwhile, you have three wonderful children, but you're focused on the car next door.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
I think this goes deep because there's a lot of data on this point, too. You brought something up that has been replicated in studies with respect to social media, Todd, that the more people are online and the more envious their posts are, there's an inverse relationship with happiness. Meaning that the more that they post online and have these, kind of, jealous tendencies towards what other people have, the less happy they actually are in real life. So science is bearing out exactly what you're talking about.

Todd Patkin:
The next one is helping people. We find that people who help people are 40% happier and 25% healthier than other people. And it doesn't have to be something big. It can just be something small like you go to the market and you help an older lady put bundles in her car. But you feel great when you're helping others. We think that they're the ones who are receiving the gift, but you're actually receiving the gift even more than them.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
That's the chocolate to my peanut butter, man. I mean, everything about this show is about helping people and there is strong neuroscience that suggests exactly what you're saying. I mean, I say it every episode, I'm gonna say it today, the happiest people are those that help others and science bears that out again and again. So, I've loved that that's one of your weeks. All right. I have lost count actually as to where we are. What step are we on Todd?

Todd Patkin:
We're on a step on being friendly.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Okay.

Todd Patkin:
And same thing, if you're really friendly to other people, and you're in a big mood, and you're laughing, and you're having fun, you become happy yourself. And what we wanna focus on is being a lamplighter. What we mean by that is everyone in the world has something that's bothering them. Again, we can talk about cancer, maybe someone's wife or husband just told them they want a divorce, maybe their child is sick. So everybody's carrying something over their shoulder. We want you to be a lamplighter. We want you to go up to them and just kind of brighten their day.

Many people say I could never do that with a stranger. And I took this from Tony Robbins. Pretend that you're your best comedian, write down in a piece of paper the comedian that you love the most, and then pretend that you're that comedian the next time you go out to a mall. If you feel that you're that comedian, you'd be very comfortable being extra, extra friendly with people. When you see someone who seems a little down, you say, "Hey, how are you today?" Maybe something even a little bit funnier and happier to just kind of take that weight off their shoulders.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Awesome. And Tony is one who really not only has spent a lot of time and research on mental states but the physiological state that comes from being connected to an idea you have. So, I really love that chapter, that one, that's perfect. What's next, Todd?

Todd Patkin:
Tony actually changed my life, Dr. Richard. When I started listening-

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Tell us, okay. 

Todd Patkin:
Well, I was 23, and I was stressed out of my mind. All I did was look at the negative. Everything was bad. I had no self-confidence. And I listened to something called his Personal Power tapes back in those days. It'd be CDs today, and it changed my life. He taught you how to feel better about yourself, how to stop always looking at the negative. This list probably has a lot to do with Tony Robbins, although the specific things on each one, I built up myself. But he's just amazing. 

I talk to people, the next step after. The next step is taking charge of your mind. We want people to read books, listen to motivational CDs every day because it can really change your state of mind if you do that before you go to bed or if you do that when you first wake up. Three books I'd recommend is Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich; Earl Nightingale, The Strangest Secret; and Anything by Tony Robbins. So, you want to start. That's a key to happiness is starting to actually read it or listen to it as well. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Those are great books, and we'll link to those in the show notes if you're listening to this, and you want to read them and you haven't.

Todd Patkin:
And then, eliminating stressors is a big one. You know there are certain things that bug you. I was always really bad. I'm good with people but I'm terrible with things. We all have our strengths and, of course, we have our weaknesses. And I'm terrible at putting things together. 

So, when we had our first child, all of a sudden, I had to put together the crib and it took me six hours and it still wasn't put together. It put me in a bad mood for the whole weekend. So, I realized that's something I don't do and it aggravates me so I don't do it anymore. And I'm lucky, my wife is great at it. But if she wasn't, then I'd hire someone to do it. So, you want to make a list of all the things you really don't like to do and try to eliminate them. 

And I know there's a lot of things you can't eliminate. Maybe you hate doing your bills, and you're single, so you have to do that. But if you're married, perhaps, you can make a list of the things you really don't like to do. Your wife can make a list or husband of the things that they really don't like to do. And, hopefully, many of the things that they don't like to do, you're okay doing it. If there are things that you both really dislike doing, and you have some extra money, you try to hire someone to do it instead.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Makes sense.

Todd Patkin:
You know, the final one is finding a higher power. This is difficult for me because I'm not really that religious or spiritual. But I think in the end if you do believe there's something whether it's a God or Krishna or Buddha or you or whatever, Christ, then when things go bad, like you do get cancer, you are terminally ill, someone you know is terminally ill, I think it is good to be able to look up in the sky and pray.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
No, it makes sense. And whatever somebody identifies with spiritually, it could be God, it could be just the universe, whatever it is, I mean there's evidence there too, right? We've done diagnostic imaging of people's brains, and there are parts of the brain that light up when one is engaging in a spiritual practice, and there's physiological and psychological benefits from that. So I love that. And you don't necessarily have to believe in a certain religious ideology to engage in that. 

So, I want to ask you a question because now that we've laid out all the 12 steps here, are these absolutely sequential? Can we do some before we do others? Can we move up and down the ladder, so to speak? What's the best way to attack this?

Todd Patkin:
Well, I definitely think you need to do exercise first because exercise will give you the strength and the power to run through these things. If you're doing 20 minutes of exercise a day or 40 minutes every other day, and you're getting frustrated with week three, but you go to the gym, I promise you that it'll put you in a better frame of mind and you'll feel a lot more positive. I don't really like the idea of you changing the weeks because you're going to put the three or four weeks that you love the most at the beginning, and then you're going to say, "I'm done, I really don't want to deal with these other ones." 

Also, you're supposed to spend at least a week on each one without going to the next week because you're trying to… you know, if it's being easier on yourself, you need at least a week to work on the process of changing the way that you do things. Tony taught that it's like a record. We all have grooves in our record playing, and I know many people aren't that old. At my age, I know what a record was. And to play a record, they have grooves. And Tony explained that we have to scratch those records, and many times go back 180 if we want to make changes. 

So, I prefer that people don't change the way the list is run. One of the things they can do is take the tapes, and listen to tapes and motivation, and put it in week two because week one is getting you going with the exercise, and week two would be the listening to motivational tapes and getting in the right frame of mind.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Right. Okay. Now, that makes sense to me. Well, this is fantastic. I've enjoyed all of these steps. And as we've been talking through, you know, there certainly is a corollary there with science behind each of these steps and that's important. So, Todd, as you know, I wrap up every episode by asking my guests a single question, and that is what is your biggest helping, that one most important piece of information you'd like somebody to walk away with after hearing our conversation today?

Todd Patkin:
It's going to be boring, but it's exercise. When I have somebody, and I work with a lot of people who are really depressed, to me, we talk about helping people, but everyone in the area knows that if somebody has a breakdown, they should come to Todd because I have a specific doctor who saves them. And that makes me feel great. But I always tell people who are feeling awful, go to the gym. It's the quickest way to feel better. So, it's boring, Dr. Richard, but that's my thing. Go to the gym and feel stronger and more powerful, but start off easy so you don't get turned off.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Make sense.

Todd Patkin:
Also, just like to mention that if you go to ToddPatkin.com, my website, T-O-D-D-P-A-T-K-I-N.com, you'll get a lot of good things there. And I actually have my 12 weeks on video if you prefer video to actually reading it. I'm giving away 50 books as well. Actually, I'll be sending them over email if you want to go to my website and put in "buy the book."

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Perfect. You know, you beat me to the punch. I was going to ask you where people can learn more about you and the 12 steps online and we got it. And we'll have those linked in the show notes at drrichardshuster.com for anybody who's at the gym right now feeling better about themselves. So, Todd, I'm really grateful you came on the show today. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I really love the conversation.

Todd Patkin:
Dr. Richard, thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Absolutely. And to each and every one of you as well who took time out of your busy day to listen to this, thank you. If you liked it, if you're inspired, if you're going to get yourself to the gym right away, go give us a follow and a five-star review on your podcast app of choice because this is what helps other people find the show. But most importantly, go out there today and do something nice for somebody else, even if you don't know who they are, and then post it in your social media feeds using the hashtag #MyDailyHelping because the happiest people are those that help others.